Cyberpunk course

[18:58] == Nadeem [i=4d66668e@gateway/web/freenode/x-kaepisyhyyqcmuel] has joined #cyberpunk
[18:58] -ChanServ- [#cyberpunk] http://newark.pardey.org
[18:59] <briancrime> hi nadeem
[18:59] <briancrime> hi bekka
[18:59] <Nadeem> hi everyone
[18:59] <rebekahn> nice to see you guys.
[19:00] == alexa [i=5845dfef@gateway/web/freenode/x-ynfjwmotzkrtdjza] has joined #cyberpunk
[19:00] == ShimmerGeek [i=5acbe68b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ljxfgrdfbjvijenz] has joined #cyberpunk
[19:01] <ShimmerGeek> hello
[19:01] <ShimmerGeek> sorry I’m a little late
[19:01] <alexa> hello
[19:01] <rebekahn> hey alexa, ShimmerGeek
[19:01] <rebekahn> no worries, nice to see you
[19:02] <rebekahn> I know Laurian mentioned that he’d be late, and I haven’t heard from the others, so we can get started
[19:02] <alexa> alright!
[19:03] <rebekahn> First off, thanks everyone for responding to the mail about grading
[19:03] <briancrime> cool!
[19:03] <rebekahn> we’re in an odd situation here, so it was great to have the feedback
[19:03] <alexa> odd situation?
[19:04] <Nadeem> rebekahn: apologies for not responding to that mail, haven’t checked mail in a few days ( me lying in bed, am medicated atm :p )
[19:04] <rebekahn> well, P2PU is an experiment, and nobody has ever tried this before
[19:04] <alexa> yeah, that’s very exciting
[19:04] <rebekahn> Nadeem: no worries, hope you’re feeling okay
[19:05] <rebekahn> alexa: it is. But sometimes it feels like we’re figuring it out as we go along!
[19:05] <Nadeem> rebekahn: i’ll get over it just need to rest … this is the first time puter has been on in several days … didnt want to miss this
[19:05] <rebekahn> Nadeem: we’re flattered.
[19:05] <Nadeem> rebekahn: have the other p2pu courses figured out how they are doing grading?
[19:06] <rebekahn> Nadeem: not really. Some are doing the pass/fail depending on how many assignments people have done
[19:06] <Nadeem> rebekahn: and is grading more of an issue if you’re seeking accreditation?
[19:07] <ShimmerGeek> tbh… i’m not sure what type of grading would be best; because it seems for each participant they are looking to get greatly different things out of the course
[19:07] <rebekahn> Nadeem: for some of the courses, yes. But Cyberpunk is such a great course, and people have such passion, that just looking at assignments seems a bit punitive
[19:07] <rebekahn> ShimmerGeek: exactly
[19:07] <Nadeem> rebekahn: i agree
[19:08] <rebekahn> But at the same time, I want you all to feel like you have gotten something at the end of the course, and your contributions have been recognised
[19:08] <briancrime> bekka – when i teach for credit research electives … i hate grading … it’s about learning not winning
[19:08] <rebekahn> briancrime: exactly. And we’re all learning so much here
[19:08] <briancrime> collaboration
[19:08] <Nadeem> rebekahn: from point of view, already feel contrbutions have been recognised when ppl not on the course are commenting on work, and i’m learning so i’m getting something out of it :p
[19:09] <ShimmerGeek> I feel like I have a much greater understanding of cyberpunk; and it’s been very interesting to discuss our varying opinions
[19:09] <briancrime> shimmer ; me2
[19:09] <rebekahn> Yay! I’m doing a little dance of joy just hearing that!
[19:09] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: ++
[19:10] <alexa> i find our discussions interesting, how many can say they have people around talking about cyberpunk
[19:10] <rebekahn> That said, everyone will get official P2PU certificates…
[19:10] <briancrime> t-shirts?
[19:10] <rebekahn> Very possibly. We’ve been discussing that, and if you guys are keen, then I can use it to convince the team
[19:10] <Nadeem> briancrime: i already got a p2pu t-shirt when I was at OpenEd09 in vnacouver :p
[19:11] <briancrime> jealous!
[19:11] <ShimmerGeek> I kept wondering where I could get those after I saw them everywhere
[19:11] <rebekahn> Well, these would be limited edition… very fancy.
[19:11] <ShimmerGeek> I’d love to participate again in something else!
[19:11] <ShimmerGeek> I’m really disappointed I’ve been unable to contribute more so far
[19:11] <Nadeem> rebekahn: limited edition …. kewl …
[19:11] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: in what sense buddy? I think you’ve contributed a lot to our discussions
[19:12] <ShimmerGeek> I’ve not been able to submit any assignments so far :3
[19:12] <ShimmerGeek> Unfortunately some mental health problems flaring up (the switchover between Depression/Hypomania with my Bipolar) has made juggling everything a bit hard
[19:13] <rebekahn> ShimmerGeek: Well, we’re talking about running the CP course again, and will be looking for facilitators
[19:13] <rebekahn> so if any of you are keen to run your own versions in P2PU v2.0, you should let me know
[19:13] <rebekahn> or a hybrid course even….
[19:13] <ShimmerGeek> I’d love to be involved in P2PU again in any sort of way at all ^^
[19:13] <Nadeem> rebekahn: i’d b interested, will mail you offline
[19:14] <rebekahn> excellent. thanks nadeem, shimmergeek.
[19:14] <rebekahn> So. back to cyberpunk….
[19:15] <rebekahn> what did you guys think about this week’s assignment?
[19:16] <alexa> I found it more difficult than the last assignment
[19:17] <rebekahn> It was tough – I agree
[19:17] <Nadeem> i enjoyed it, but like alexa i thought it was hard, trying to figure out how to answer the question was difficult.
[19:17] <rebekahn> but I think you all handled it beautifully
[19:17] <rebekahn> alexa: what challenged you?
[19:17] <briancrime> plenty of articles suggest this wonderful writing is rich enough to live on forever
[19:17] <ShimmerGeek> tbh… my personal view is that Cyberpunk is becoming *more* relevant
[19:17] <alexa> yes but many say it’s the other way.
[19:18] <ShimmerGeek> as we move closer to it becoming our actual reality; the themes it explores and the things it has to say become… i’m not sure.. more urgent, and more interesting
[19:18] <ShimmerGeek> the exploration of the ideas are more important
[19:19] <briancrime> tragi comedic how easy it is to write off what we fear and/or don’t understand …
[19:19] <briancrime> cyberpunk like a slightly rotten apple
[19:19] <rebekahn> I tend to agree that it’s becoming more relevant and exciting.
[19:19] <alexa> but what I found challenging was if Cyberpunk is still relevant as an philosophic issue
[19:20] <ShimmerGeek> alexa: what do you mean?
[19:20] <rebekahn> but I’m intruiged by the arguments that it’s dead. Did any of you find any convincing arguments for the genre being irrelevant?
[19:20] <Nadeem> alexa: i think thats an important question to ask, and I think it does have value.
[19:20] <rebekahn> alexa: ++
[19:20] <alexa> well, we learned about the questions Cyberpunk asks:
[19:21] <alexa> what does it mean to be human,
[19:21] <alexa> what makes us human,
[19:21] <alexa> is there more to the world what we see…etc.
[19:21] <alexa> but these ideas, didn’t evolve from Cyberpunk in the first place
[19:22] <Nadeem> rebekahn: I don’t think it’s dead I think that because our reality has to some degree caught up with the more classical cyberpunk works it does have relevance to the hear and now,  but is it looking into the future in the same way and with the same vision that those works written thirty years ago did?
[19:22] <alexa> for example the idea to the Matrix
[19:23] <briancrime> bekka – it is the writing … snow crash … genius that makes a work or art or story … timeless
[19:23] <alexa> comes from Plato’s Allegory of the cave. sorry for answering that long
[19:24] <rebekahn> Alexa: I think that’s really interesting. The idea that Cyberpunk is part of a greater traditon of qustioning
[19:24] <Nadeem> alexa: is it that cyberpunk asks those same questions but in a more visceral way?
[19:24] <alexa> yes, that’s what I try to point out
[19:24] <Nadeem> alexa: ++
[19:24] <rebekahn> briancrime: I agree. And the writing is just so good
[19:25] <rebekahn> but i always think that the rest of the world looks at cyberpunk as a kind of “step-child”
[19:25] <rebekahn> in terms of formal literature
[19:25] <alexa> thanks nadeem=)
[19:25] <rebekahn> And let’s be honest, there is a lot of pretty crappy cyberpunk out there too….
[19:26] <alexa> i think because they have prejudices
[19:26] <Nadeem> rebekahn: what do you think makes something qualify as a literary genre?
[19:26] <briancrime> bekka – there is an ocean of crappy books on all topics … snow crash is canonical … the obsession w/ code which is law in metaverse ( cyber ) and reality ( society ) …
[19:27] <rebekahn> nadeem: well, i think part of what makes something part of the canon is that it gets studied a lot
[19:27] <Nadeem> rebekahn: ++ indeed
[19:27] <rebekahn> and the study of cyberpunk is relatively new
[19:27] <briancrime> everything – the fabu sense of humor the cynical world view the play on words and treatment of sacred cows like
[19:27] <Nadeem> so do we think people should study cyberpunk literature more?
[19:28] <briancrime> lets keep it to ourselve, nadeem
[19:28] <ShimmerGeek> i’m not sure…
[19:28] <Nadeem> briancrime: ++
[19:28] <ShimmerGeek> i read a quote today saying that if sci-fi became mainstream it would probably be far less interesting
[19:28] <ShimmerGeek> and tbh i think that’s true
[19:28] <Nadeem> theres something about cyberpunk as mainstream that feels odd
[19:28] <briancrime> commercial enterprise may dilute the product (matrx) like alt indie music cooption …
[19:29] <ShimmerGeek> i suppose it’s because cyberpunk is about the underdog
[19:29] <Nadeem> briancrime: ++ yes i feel much the same
[19:29] <ShimmerGeek> it’d just be weird it was the ‘cool kid’ of literary genres
[19:29] <briancrime> and it’s about offending
[19:29] <briancrime> norms
[19:29] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: i think its more that cyberpunk is anti-establishment, and to me it feels like it should stay there.
[19:29] <briancrime> nadeem — me2
[19:30] <rebekahn> I agree. Although I think waaaay more people should study cyberpunk
[19:31] <Nadeem> rebekahn: there is something attractive in what you’re suggesting, the epistimelogical value of cyberpunk seems to all the more poignant because of the recognisable contexts.
[19:31] <Nadeem> i wonder if people would get more out of it, but like anything , they’d need to want to.
[19:32] <rebekahn> Nadeem: agreed. and perhaps formal literary studies may not be the best place for that
[19:32] <briancrime> bekka – snow crash is ecstasy .. u either get it or u dont
[19:33] <rebekahn> I guess we need to bear in mind that we’ve also been reading the cream of the crop, like you say briancrime
[19:33] <rebekahn> briancrime: so i guess you’re with me and alexa in Snow Crash being a favourite…
[19:33] <briancrime>
[19:33] <briancrime> reading passages to my 14 year old — he’s hooked
[19:33] <alexa> =)
[19:34] <rebekahn> I wonder if there is a difference in coming to this genre as an adult vs as a teen?
[19:34] <briancrime> humor is the most powerful and arguably universal medium
[19:34] <ShimmerGeek> hmm.. i was 19 i think ^^ possibly 20 heheh
[19:34] <Nadeem> briancrime: ++
[19:35] <briancrime> imagine a digital cyber warrior film fanatic 14 year old scrounging around for my copy of snow crash
[19:35] <rebekahn> ShimmerGeek: totally a teen then :p
[19:35] <Nadeem> rebekahn: do u think it makes that much of a difference in a world were kids are growing up as digital natives?
[19:35] <ShimmerGeek> tbh i’ve had a pc since i was about 6
[19:35] <ShimmerGeek> i think i’m fairly digitally-native
[19:35] <ShimmerGeek> (i’m only 22)
[19:36] <briancrime> born w/the chip — that’s not me … but that’s kids today
[19:36] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: me too, ( and im 32) but the difference is our connectedness, when I was a kid there wasnt an internet as such
[19:36] <rebekahn> I’m sure it must. I remember Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy making me laugh outloud as a 15 year old, but re-reading at 25, I suddenly understood so much more, becuase I understand the tech/science/math stuff
[19:36] <ShimmerGeek> i dont remember there not being ‘net
[19:37] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: awww you kids have it easy :
[19:37] <Nadeem> :p
[19:37] <ShimmerGeek> ^^ hehe
[19:37] <rebekahn> I remember sending my first email at university….
[19:37] <briancrime> i was searching full text commercial legaldatabases in 1989 … how many years before the web was a gleam in berners-lee’s eye
[19:37] <briancrime> modem —
[19:37] <rebekahn> briancrime: wow.
[19:37] <Nadeem> rebekahn: I know what you mean wrt to having a greater appreciation as you get older but isnt that true of any genre?
[19:37] <briancrime> yeah Me Dinosaur U Jaded
[19:38] <Nadeem> I re-read wuthering heights a couple of months ago and it felt different
[19:38] <rebekahn> he he he. Says she, leaning on her zimmerframe.
[19:38] <Nadeem> i saw things id never seen before.
[19:38] <Nadeem> briancrime: ++
[19:38] <rebekahn> Nadeem: I agree, but somehow the cyberpunk stuff seems more exciting ebcuase not only do I understand it, but I’m living some of it.
[19:39] <ShimmerGeek> yeah… I think that’s why i love it
[19:39] <Nadeem> rebekahn: yup, totally!
[19:39] <ShimmerGeek> it’s like, so *almost* there
[19:39] <briancrime> me2 …
[19:39] <briancrime> almost
[19:39] <briancrime> there
[19:39] <ShimmerGeek> things described in the 80s in Cyberpunk are sometimes either here, or almost here
[19:39] <ShimmerGeek>
[19:39] <rebekahn> So what do you think the next generation of great cyberpunk will be concerned with?
[19:39] <briancrime> pizza delivery
[19:39] <Nadeem> do we ever think, or desire for it to be “totally there”, i dont think it ever will, and dont think i’d ever want it to
[19:39] <ShimmerGeek> i’m not sure… i think things are developing at such a rate it’s becoming harder to see the future
[19:39] <rebekahn> briancrime: ++
[19:40] <Nadeem> but as a medium its helped me look at the present and the future in a different wasy over the last decade and a half
[19:40] <Nadeem> good writing does that, and there’s something intrinisically appealing about cyberpunk
[19:40] <briancrime> i agree:  the best stories seem to look in every possible direction … not necessarily linear
[19:41] <Nadeem> “may all your dreams but one come true”
[19:42] <rebekahn> Nadeem: absolutely.
[19:42] <briancrime> keep on truckin
[19:42] <alexa> I like Cyberpunk, because it can make your mind dizzy just by thinking of all the cirucumstances in some stories. (sounds funny, i know)
[19:42] <rebekahn> I’d love to see into the future and see if more of our immediate issues get into the genre
[19:42] <rebekahn> like environmentla stuff
[19:43] <rebekahn> it was like 80s = cold war = particaulr themes in the work
[19:43] <briancrime> bekka – i feel so spoiled with the “West Coast” scenic tour of snow crash …
[19:43] <briancrime> i could tell u exactly why it’s terminal island … for real
[19:43] <briancrime> so environment … absolutely
[19:44] <briancrime> virtual worlds (second life)
[19:44] <rebekahn> briancrime: is it really like that? Becuase Johannesburg is nothing like it is in District 9
[19:44] <briancrime> bekka — i m a romantic — it is for me
[19:44] <briancrime> (and i loved district 9 )
[19:45] <Nadeem> rebekahn: wasnt there some controversy because ppl actually living in district 9 didn;t like the association?
[19:45] <rebekahn> Nadeem: there was some – they had some very accurate depictions of the city
[19:45] <Nadeem> btw: do everyone read Shiner’s “Confessions of an Ex-Cyberpunk” ? http://www.lewisshiner.com/liberation/cyberpunk.html
[19:46] <Nadeem> rebekahn: i never spent too much time in joburg, but I did visit the cape flats a lot.
[19:46] <Nadeem> sorry the reason i ask about shiner’s piece is because I thought it was relevant to the question “is cyberpunk dead”
[19:47] <rebekahn> Nadeem: pretty similar spaces. But on the whole, south africans were relieved that our world was depicted accurately for a change.
[19:47] <Nadeem> Sterling responded to Shiner with: http://www.ctraces.com/Circuit_Traces/CT1_2/cyberpunk.html
[19:47] <briancrime> all – california is beautiful … i love long beach … but industrial wasteland exists … there is a “trend”  that Stephenson sees writes about …
[19:47] <ShimmerGeek> tbh i think LA is horrible
[19:47] <briancrime> the downward eco spiral worth noting
[19:48] <briancrime> another value intrinsic in most canonical cyberprose
[19:48] <ShimmerGeek> the amount of roads is just otherworldly
[19:48] <Nadeem> technology replaces nature?
[19:48] <briancrime> 16 lanes wide … plenty waiting
[19:48] <Nadeem> s/replaces/obliterates
[19:48] <ShimmerGeek> Nadeem:++
[19:48] <rebekahn> I also read this today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/03/hitchhikers-guide-galaxy-douglas-adams
[19:49] <rebekahn> which asks if Hitchhikers is still relevant – appropriate for this discussion i thought.
[19:49] == Laurian [i=c04c0786@gateway/web/freenode/x-rjntkymctufkmalc] has joined #cyberpunk
[19:49] <rebekahn> I guess we’ll also be able to make a nice comparison when we read I, Robot
[19:50] <Nadeem> “Literature, of course, is full of proleptic descriptions of imaginary IT – EM Forster did it in “The Machine Stops” (1909) and William Gibson would shortly start colonising cyberspace in Burning Chrome (1982). Adams, though, went beyond prophecy not to dystopia – lots of writers do that – but to small-scale obsolescence and disappointment.”
[19:50] <Laurian> Hi, just checking if all is OK, I’m in project dinner
[19:50] <Laurian> time
[19:50] <W1NT3RMUT3> Laurian: the time is now Wed Oct 07 18:49:06 UTC 2009
[19:50] <Nadeem> Laurian: hi buddy
[19:50] <Laurian> ok, bot is running, I can get the transcript later
[19:50] <Laurian> must go, have fun.
[19:50] == Laurian [i=c04c0786@gateway/web/freenode/x-rjntkymctufkmalc] has quit [Client Quit]
[19:51] <Nadeem> “Above all, Adams’s books give voice to a sense of dismay and uprootedness, of being oneself out of date and unfit for purpose and somehow not in on the joke: “All through my life I’ve had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was,” as Arthur complains to Slartibartfast.”
[19:52] <Nadeem> … theres something about that which echoes Morpheus in The Matrix when he’s talking to Neo before offering him the pills.
[19:52] <rebekahn> Nadeem: I think that’s what Adams can make me way more depressed than Gibson or Sterling!
[19:52] <Nadeem> rebekahn: yeah, they do!
[19:54] <rebekahn> A question for you all: Do you think cyberpunk fans’ and writers’ distaste for the mainstream will always mean it’s a marginal genre?
[19:54] <Nadeem> rebekahn: associated with the lunatic fringe?
[19:55] <briancrime> bekka – we can hope … and for the artists themselves, who deserve gifts ($), there is Hollywood …
[19:55] <rebekahn> Nadeem: Maybe not that extreme but certainly not on highschool reading lists…
[19:56] <Nadeem> rebekahn: i think there’s certainly an element of that, but then the mainstream is arguably the “system” , when we consider school reading lists.
[19:56] <briancrime> we just celebrated banned books week here
[19:56] <rebekahn> briancrime: any cyberpunk?
[19:56] <alexa> rebekahn: how come? aren’t most non-mainstram books on the high school list? i’m just surprised
[19:56] <briancrime> i think these classics are so weird they escape the witch hunters who would ban harry potter
[19:57] <briancrime> i couldn’t find any classic cyberpunk on the list, bekka
[19:57] <rebekahn> briancrime: they need to ban better books!
[19:57] <briancrime> it’s like — it escaped easy identifiction
[19:57] <briancrime> They do, they do
[19:57] <rebekahn> alexa: we never would have read cyberpunk at school
[19:58] <briancrime> We neither
[19:58] <Nadeem> jeez … i love “Catcher in the Rye” how long was that censored, in fact i think its still banned in China.
[19:58] <alexa> hmm, we read blade runner. and fahrenheit 451
[19:58] <rebekahn> alexa: really? That’s amazing. I’m moving to Germany!
[19:58] <Nadeem> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catcher_in_the_Rye#Controversy
[19:58] <alexa> haha=) I guess it depends on the teacher too.
[19:59] <Nadeem> but isnt it the case that the what was one generations subversive text, is the next generations mainstream
[19:59] <rebekahn> If you had to give any cyberpunk book to a young person who wants to know more about the genre, which would it be?
[19:59] <briancrime> http://tinyurl.com/n6w3et
[19:59] <ShimmerGeek> (sorry for not saying much;  haven’t really had anything occur to me to say ^^)
[19:59] <rebekahn> Nadeem: I hope so.
[20:00] <Nadeem> briancrime: ++ for the ALA Banned / Challenged books link
[20:00] <alexa> rebekahn: it think do androids dream. it was a good book fort starters, that’s what some people said in my class.
[20:01] <alexa> (when we read it.)
[20:01] <briancrime> me2 alexa … it’s pulpy … hard boiled …
[20:02] <Nadeem> alexa: i think thats a good choice too
[20:02] <rebekahn> I think so too.
[20:02] <rebekahn> Or maybe I’d send them to one of ShimmerGeek’s Role Playing Games….
[20:03] <ShimmerGeek> hehe
[20:03] <briancrime> assign the toilet paper memo from snow crash?
[20:03] <ShimmerGeek> i’m not sure how good the atmosphere is in RPGs tbh
[20:03] <ShimmerGeek> theyre interesting to explore a lot fo elements; but theyre not as evocative
[20:04] <rebekahn> ShimmerGeek: good point.
[20:04] <rebekahn> So, we’re officially reaching the end of the class here – time does fly in these conversations
[20:05] <Nadeem> http://www.paulkincaid.co.uk/Reviews/heterotopic.htm
[20:06] <rebekahn> but I was wondering if there was anything else anyone wanted to talk about? Today was much harder than the last few weeks, topic-wise
[20:07] <ShimmerGeek> favourite cyberpunk work, of any type, you think we *should* read? from each person?
[20:07] <ShimmerGeek> (or see, if it’s not a book ^^)
[20:08] <rebekahn> You know, I think it would still be Snow Crash. I think it’s almost, 100% perfect…
[20:08] <Nadeem> rebekahn: ++
[20:09] <rebekahn> Nadeem: thanks. I’m a groupie
[20:09] <briancrime> so true … code … from origin to metaverse
[20:09] <alexa> Do Androids Dream, is a great one. in my opinion. I would recomend it. (I did to my sister ^^)
[20:09] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: under the “see” category  … i’d recommend “Ghost in the Shell” the three movies are excellent, the two series are better examination of society but take a lot of time to watch.
[20:10] <ShimmerGeek> I think probably Ex Machina – it’s a Roleplaying Game book; but it has 4 different Cyberpunk settings; and 200-300 (maybe 400?) pages all about these settings
[20:10] <Nadeem> I really liked Mindplayers, I re-read it for this course and was startled with how different it now felt.
[20:10] <ShimmerGeek> It’s not one you need to play; the settings are just fascinating to read through
[20:11] <rebekahn> ShimmerGeek: Sounds really interesting. I’m going to have to track it down.
[20:11] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: got a link for it?
[20:11] <ShimmerGeek> Sadly it’s out of print – It’s published by Guardians of Order
[20:11] <ShimmerGeek> one sec; i will look for a link, and if not, grab the book and find the ISBM
[20:11] <ShimmerGeek> *ISBN
[20:11] <briancrime> try worldcat.org
[20:12] <ShimmerGeek> ta
[20:12] <ShimmerGeek> oooh! $10 for the pdf
[20:13] <ShimmerGeek> http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_33&products_id=1483
[20:13] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/57012510&referer=brief_results
[20:13] <briancrime> http://tinyurl.com/yejt458
[20:13] <briancrime> sorry
[20:13] <Nadeem> ShimmerGeek: ++ cool …
[20:13] <ShimmerGeek> or here on amazon for print http://www.amazon.com/Ex-Machina-Tri-Stat-Cyberpunk-Genre/dp/1894938011
[20:13] <rebekahn> Excellent.
[20:14] <ShimmerGeek> shadowrun is amazing aswell – i only fail to recommend it because it’s bastardised with urban high fantasy
[20:14] <ShimmerGeek> and Eclipse Phase – though we spoke about it before and I believe a few people linked it
[20:14] <Nadeem> “urban high fantasy” ?
[20:14] <briancrime> hi tech ?
[20:15] <Nadeem> ll
[20:15] <Nadeem> lol
[20:15] <ShimmerGeek> elves/orcs/dwarfs/trolls / dragons / lots of magic (but all in the cities/urban environments)
[20:16] <Nadeem> mmm lord of the rings in the sprawl … *shudder*
[20:16] <ShimmerGeek> eugh.. <.< *tries to blank out lotr/d&d from her fantasy*
[20:16] <ShimmerGeek> as impossible as that is XD
[20:17] <Nadeem> so what we doing for next week?
[20:17] <rebekahn> Well, apart from inventing new genres, thanks to ShimmerGeek…
[20:17] <rebekahn> We were going to talk about I, Robot, right?
[20:17] <Nadeem> something snow crash related? everyone seems to like it but we haven’t really touched on it i the same way we’ve covered gibson and dick ?
[20:18] <rebekahn> We can certainly do that
[20:18] <rebekahn> if everyone is keen….
[20:18] <Nadeem> I liked Doctrows I, Robot,  I lurve the graphic novel version … its beautifully drawn.
[20:18] <briancrime> “You’ve got a friend in the family”
[20:18] <Nadeem> rebekahn: did we ever hear back from doctrow?
[20:19] <rebekahn> Maybe we should do a comparison between Snow Crash and I, Robot, since they’re both the most modern
[20:19] <Nadeem> about joining us for a discussion?
[20:19] <rebekahn> Nadeem: I mailed him, no response
[20:19] <Nadeem> rebekahn: ++ thats a gr8 idea
[20:19] <rebekahn> but I’m going to try again, since I think it’s worth pestering him
[20:19] <Nadeem> rebekahn: anyone read Pat Cadigans, Mindplayers?
[20:20] <alexa> sorry no.
[20:20] <rebekahn> Me neither. It’s unfindable in SA
[20:20] <Nadeem> she;s really active on twitter and has responded to some of my tweets about this course , pity we dont have much time left, i think she would have been up for a chat with us.
[20:20] <rebekahn> Maybe we should invite her anyway
[20:21] <Nadeem> rebekahn: I bought a second hand copy that turned out to be signed by her!!
[20:21] <rebekahn> To talk about current cyberpunk, maybe?
[20:21] <rebekahn> Nadeem: wow!
[20:21] <Nadeem> i’ll contact her and see if shes interesting
[20:21] <Nadeem> rebekahn:  the wow bit is that it cost me £4
[20:21] <rebekahn> That would be great, thanks.
[20:21] == briancrime [i=80c39119@gateway/web/freenode/x-iyigaismjahhiwqa] has quit ["Page closed"]
[20:22] <Nadeem> so im glad cyberpunk isnt mainstream, the guy selling it clearly didnt know how important a work it is :p
[20:22] <Nadeem> so with reference to next weeks assignment, are ppl agreed comparison between snow crash and i robot?
[20:22] <rebekahn> Cool, so shall we say Week 5 is about more recent cyberpunk, with Snow Crash and I Robot as a basis, but plenty of space for discussion?
[20:22] <ShimmerGeek> sounds good
[20:23] <Nadeem> rebekahn: that has my vote
[20:23] <alexa> okay
[20:23] <rebekahn> Excellent. I’ll mail the list tonight so nobody feels left out.
[20:23] <rebekahn> And I hope you’re all thinking about the creative writing theme for the following week!
[20:24] <rebekahn> I can’t wait to see what people come up with.
[20:24] <alexa> I just have a question to week 6 assignment, I’m  preparing.
[20:24] <Nadeem> rebekahn: *shudder* week 6 scares me
[20:24] <rebekahn> Alexa: shoot
[20:24] <alexa> I’d like to draw a comic. but it might take to much space on the blog.
[20:24] <alexa> whre could I post it?
[20:25] <Nadeem> alexa: lol awesome i’m not the only one!!
[20:25] <alexa> cool I#m already excited
[20:25] <Nadeem> alexa: you could upload the file to the blog, and provide a link?
[20:25] <Nadeem> or create  a pdf?
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[20:26] <Nadeem> and use something like slideshare as an embedded viewer in the blog?
[20:26] <Nadeem> or scribd.
[20:26] <Nadeem> alexa: thats what I was ging to do if I could work up the courage to try and draw something
[20:27] <alexa> okay, I think that would work
[20:27] <rebekahn> Nadeem: would you mind maybe sending a mail to the list with some of these ideas? In case anyone else wants to do thi
[20:27] <rebekahn> this
[20:27] <Nadeem> there’s quit a lot of tools out there that will allow you to embed the content in the blog ( and scale it down) but go full screen when someone wants to view it.
[20:27] <Nadeem> rebekahn: absolutely, i guess i take it for granted, tend to work with those tools a lot. i’ll make sure i send something around tomorrow.
[20:27] <alexa> that souds great! full screen, yeah!
[20:28] <rebekahn> nadeem: that would be great, thank you. See, this is why this group is so fantastic.
[20:28] <rebekahn> Alexa: I’m excited to see it!
[20:29] <alexa> I’m excited about the reaction!
[20:29] <Nadeem> rebekahn: i might end up drawing stick men … minimalist
[20:29] <rebekahn> Nadeem: well, it works for xkcd…
[20:29] <Nadeem> alexa: i think its a great idea, so much of what we are doing on this course is “experimental” the notion of simply submitting a written essay in a “digital media” age, seems like an anachronism – a mainstream trapping.
[20:30] <Nadeem> doing something more visual or even interactive is far more compelling i think.
[20:30] <Nadeem> rebekahn: damn … i was gonna steal my ideas from there :p
[20:30] <rebekahn> Nadeem: absolutely. I really like that idea.
[20:31] <rebekahn> lol
[20:31] <alexa> I’m looking forward to week 6. It surely will be very cool!
[20:31] <Nadeem> thats why i was pleased that ppl didnt think my piece on setting and environment was bad because it was a set of pictures
[20:31] <Nadeem> rebekahn: does the course HAVE to be six weeks?
[20:32] <rebekahn> I think we all have the same ideas on how much is actually possible with this medium, which is really exciting
[20:32] <rebekahn> Nadeem: I was wondering the same thing.
[20:32] <rebekahn> We’ll need another week to discuss the creative stuff, so why not extend it?
[20:32] <Nadeem> rebekahn: six weeks has gone by so fast, it would be nice if it could last a little longer?
[20:33] <Nadeem> i’d like to extend it a bit
[20:33] <rebekahn> Absolutely. I’ll talk to the powers that be, but if there is interest, I don’t see why we can’t extend this
[20:33] <alexa> count me in too
[20:33] <Nadeem> not necessarily because of the creative piece, but because the assignments and group discussions are so interesting.
[20:34] <Nadeem> six weeks seems too short for something so cool
[20:34] <rebekahn> For sure. it would be interesting to see how long we can sustain something like this, and how it would evolve
[20:34]  * Nadeem is excited
[20:35]  * Nadeem is glad he got out of bed for this
[20:35] <Nadeem> :p
[20:35] <rebekahn> excellent.
[20:35] <rebekahn> by the way:
[20:35] <alexa> We had a great discussion today. but I think it’s time to say good bye
[20:35] <rebekahn> I just got a mail from james, who couldn’t make it – he’s wondering about the transcripts
[20:35] <rebekahn> Bye Alexa. Thanks for everything
[20:36] <alexa> goodbye to all! my pleasure